How Not to Act on J-Date

So based on the success of "What not to do if you don't get the job," this week, we're proud to bring you "How not to act on J-Date."

COMPLETE WITH AUDIO!!

This was emailed to me (don't bother to ask by who, I promised secrecy) and it's about three or so weeks old. And before you give me crap for posting it, trust me, it was forwarded about 22 times before it hit me, so it's definitely out there. I'm not printing anything that doesn't already exist.

Our story opens with some background: For the uninitiated, (those who don't live in either New York, Florida, Los Angeles, or Israel,) J-Date is match.com for Jews. I've used it. I've had a few good dates from it, a few horrible dates from it, like most everyone has.

And when you have one of those horrible dates, you chalk it up. "Oh, it was just dinner," you say.

That's life. There'll be other dates. Right?

I mean, that's what we all do, yes?

NOT DARREN SHERMAN. Darren just felt... Well, "wronged."

So let's start here: Darren's profile reads:

About me:
   
I joined JDate four weeks ago. Cute, tall and funny best describes me!
I am a person whom is usually on the go, particularly in the warm
weather. In the summertime you can typically find me on the beaches in the
Hampton's or New Jersey shore. In the wintertime I enjoy taking drives
to beautiful towns such as Lambertsville, Red Bank, Katonah, Port
Jefferson and Greenwich. "People watching" can be an easily enjoyable
activity for me. I own a management consulting firm assisting financial
institutions with regulatory issues. I travel extensively for business and
pleasure.
   
I am looking for:
   
I am on JDate to find someone special. I have no set rules per se on
dating someone younger/older (20-40). I have learned that age really does
not matter; so why limit any possibilities in finding a life long
partner. Wouldn't you agree? Physcial characteristics: Preferably tall and
medium build. Mentally: Fun and easy going. Someone who is comfortable
with themselves. I love a good jokester so please be funny!
   
Below is a little bit more about me from a professional perspective.
(Hey, JDating is serious business :-)
   
Biography of Darren L. Sherman:
   
Mr. Darren L. Sherman is CEO of <company deleted to give the guy at least somewhat of a chance of recovering from his stupidity at some point in his life from a business perspective, anyway,> a
consultation firm providing regulatory compliance and internal audit
assistance to..blah blah. Darren previously served as a Senior
Investigator for the <government agency deleted>..blah blah.
   
References are available upon request :-)

I hope we get the chance to finally meet!

Darren

_____

So Darren asks Joanne out. Joanne accepts. They eat at China Grill. (Nice restaurant. I've been there.) Darren pays, despite Joanne offering to split the check.

At some point after the meal, Darren gets the idea that Joanne didn't like him.

Rather than just chalk it up to a bad date (hey, it happens, right?) Darren... Well, Darren has other plans.

DARREN EMAILS JOANNE ASKING HER TO SEND HIM $50 FOR HER PORTION OF DINNER.

Yes. I paused and re-read that about 30 times, too.

I couldn't be serious, could I? He actually didn't email that, did he? Oh, but he did:

From: Darren Sherman
Date: Jun 19, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: Date
To: [email protected]
: <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc:


Sorry things didn't work out. I guess you changed your
mind.
Here is my address for the $50 bucks:
<DELETED> East <DELETED>  Street, Apt. 504
NY NY 10028
Take care,
Darren

_______

OK. So Darren's a bit odd. Fine. He emailed her, she didn't respond, and he let it go. Right?

Come on. What kind of story would that be?

Darren CALLED HER AND LEFT A VOICE MAIL, THREATENING TO SEND HER A SUMMONS IF SHE DOESN'T PAY HER SHARE OF THE BILL!

(Insert Jerry Springer "OH NO HE DIDN'T" line here.)

But he did.

Listen here:

Download VM-01-1.wav

So Joanne goes to work, after hearing that email on her mobile phone voice mail the night before, and before she can even say the world "stalker," she gets the following email:

From: Darren Sherman
Date: Jun 20, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Darren
To: [email protected]
: <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc:


Joanne,

I wanted to follow up on my email and call to you last night to ensure you received my messages for the $50.

Please acknowledge by replying to this email that you will be sending me the $50.

I hope you understand from my point of view.

Thanks,
Darren

________

Um... OK. This is just getting weird. It ends here, right.

Heh. Yeah. Right.

Joanne sends the following email back to Darren:

Darren,

I just received your emails and also your message from last night. I  was away and am just getting back this morning. I had every intention of calling you andmeeting to go out but your email has completely turned me off and i find it extremely tacky. I will not be sending you any money since i offered that night to pay and you told me no that you would take care of it.

Please do not call me or send me another email i would rather not hear from you at all. And for future reference in the dating world you may want to rethink the tacky approach about asking someone for money like that perhaps that is why you haven't met anyone or have seen them again.

__________

Go Joanne!! Way to show a backbone! Nice!

This, of course, (as you could have guessed,) just sends Darren to the next level.

HE CUTS AND PASTES HIS AMEX BILL INTO AN EMAIL!!!

From: Darren Sherman
Date: Jun 20, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: American Express Bill
To: [email protected]
: <mailto:[email protected]>

06/04/2006
CHINA GRILL NEW YORK NY
FOOD/BEVERAGE
FOOD-BEV 107.83
TIP 20.00
Reference No: 320061560288086573
More Detail
127.83

Do the right thing Joanne.

Thanks,
Darren

__________

Words fail me.

About four hours later, DarrenStalker (TM) strikes again, sending another voice mail, telling Joanne that she's "hiding behind email," and now he's going to "contact her employer."

There aren't big enough letters on my keyboard to type "WTF?"

Listen here, and try not to snort soda out of your nose.

Download VM-02-2.wav

After receiving this barrage of communications, Joanne decides to fire  off an email to Darren to end this once and for all:

From: [email protected]
: <mailto:[email protected]>
Date: Jun 20, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject:
To: Darren Sherman

Darren

I am truly sorry it didn't work out. You seemed like a nice guy, but  after your voice mails you have now entered the world of a first class creep.  Dating is not business, I offered to go dutch at the time the bill  came and you declined, as far as I am concerned that is the end of the  story. I didn't know that your paying the bill was contingent on me  going out with you again.

Once again, I think you need to look internally as to why things are  not working out for you in the dating world. You had mentioned that  you had been burned several times, and I am sorry if you feel that it  has happened to you again, but perhaps it is your approach in dealing  with others that leads to this. Dating and relationships and business  are completely different and there is not a quid pro quo for eating  and drinking on a date. If this is how you think it works, perhaps you  should get consult a professional who I could take care of all of your  needs. If I remember correctly it was your choice to go out for  dinner, I would have been just as happy to take a walk in the park to get to know you.

With that said, please feel free to call my employer or issue a  summons if you think that this will help. Your message has said that  you will not drop this, and I am not one to be bullied or threatened.  I have saved all your messages and if you chose to go ahead with your  threats then I will be more than happy to notify the proper  authorities and get a restraining order. I will also let your clients  and employees know about your erratic and bizarre behavior.

Joanne.

_________

I do love her backbone.

Does this phase Stalker-Darren? (Who should totally be a comic strip character and should fight the Green Lantern or something...)

No, it does not phase Stalker-Darren.

Darren calls her OFFICE, again threatening the summons, and offering up this pearl of Darren-Wisdom: "You ate the food, you drank the wine, Pay your bill."

Words fail me here, guys. And seriously - for a publicist? That's rare.

Listen here:

Download VM-03-3.wav

And of course, much like the Ginsu Knives commercial, just wait. There's MORE!

After another 28 minutes, Darren calls her cell phone AGAIN!! This time, (and I implore you - sit down for this one) he lets Joanne know that he's CALLED CHINA GRILL TO REPORT A DISCREPENCY IN THE BILL!

Yes, you read that right. Darren has told Joanne that he called China Grill to speak to the General Manager to explain that he should not have been charged for the entire meal - i.e., He expects China Grill to call Joanne and get her half of the bill, and credit his AmEx.
People, I have no motive for lying. You can't make this stuff up. Listen to the fourth voice mail here:

Download VM-04-4.wav

Finally, the fifth voice mail. From CHINA GRILL! They called, apparently as confused as we all are, asking Joanne what the heck was going on.

Download VM-05.WAV

PR props to China Grill - When Joanne told them the story, they not only told her to not worry about the bill, but offered her a free drink the next time she stopped in. WELL DONE, China Grill's GM. Someone got their PR training. Bravo.

At this point, kids, that's where our story ends. Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of Darren Sherman - Perhaps he's filing a "stop payment" on his Amex Bill... Or perhaps he's given up J-Date all together.

One thing we do know, though - (and how many times have I said this?) It you put it out there, either on a voice mail, email, fax, or the Internet, it WILL come back to bite you in the ass.

You don't believe me?

Just ask Darren Sherman.

Comments

[Kiersten Smith]

This is seriously disturbing behavior, and i'm not joking. It's time to RUN, not walk, in the other direction when this guy approaches. Very scary.

[heidi]

unnnnnn-beeeeeee-lievableeeeeeeeee. seriously, all you can do is laugh! thanks for posting that. i'm linking a few friends now. cheers :)
-hh

[Pamela]

oh. my. god. I (almost) can't believe it. But I heard the taped proof!

[guest]

quote: " I have learned that age really does
not matter; so why limit any possibilities in finding a life long
partner. Wouldn't you agree?"

This is coming from a person who is going to a jewish only dating service. Oh the irony.

[guest]

"I didn't know that your paying the bill was contingent on me going out with you again."

Ok, even though I think this guy is way out of line, maybe the ladies out there should really, really insist on paying half when you know you never want to see this guy again. Not because of weirdo's like this guy, because maybe it is the right thing to do. An example of this is buying a drink for a girl at a bar. My friend did this, offered a lady a drink, she accepted, talking to him for about 30 seconds and promptly walked away with her drink. He walked up to her and said something along the lines of 'how dare you?! You know as well as I do that that drink isn't really a drink, it's says I like you would you like to talk and get to know each other better. And accepting the drink is accepting this offer.'

And you know what he's right. That is what the drink signifies.

So I guess the question is, what does the custom of the man paying for dinner (at least the first one, if not a few more) signify?

Hmm, maybe some sexist things here but the one thing that jumps out it symbolizes being a provider. It's old school crap but that basically is what it is.

Now, we've all been on a few dates that didn't go the greatest. And one/both parties decide that's it. But one goes home and chalks it up to experience and the other does the same minus some cash. Now as the guy, if I feel I enjoyed the date and somehow I am misreading her and think there is potential for another date, of course I'm going to be 'a gentleman' and pay, to do otherwise would be dating suicide.

So if thats being a gentleman, maybe being 'a lady' is insisting to (and I mean insisting not just the one kindly offer, as that can impress a man and make him like you even more) go dutch when you know you never want to see this guy again.

[playfulkitten]

The thing is, though, that she did intend to contact him again about seeing each other after that. However, he jumped the gun: he couldn't reach her immediately, so he flipped out on her. She saw that and immediately changed her mind, naturally.

I also don't think him declining her offer to go dutch entitles him to any second date rights, not even in the same ballpark as buying someone a drink in a bar for the obvious purpose of chatting someone up. Besides, she hadn't decided not to see him again at the point the bill was up for discussion.

I'd say the best policy on a date, especially a (mostly) blind one is for both parties to be happy to go dutch, then take it from there. If you're going to insist on paying the whole bill (male or female) understand it doesn't entitle you to so much as a "sorry, not interested" email after the fact.

(P.S. to the blog tech: I signed into TypeKey which removes the name/email/URL fields, but it gave me an error and has me fill 'em in after I try to post. No biggie, just thought I'd mention it.)

[Trix]

Would you please forward Darren's personal info to my email address? He sounds like my kind of guy.

Oy.

[ks]

guest - call me old fashioned, but i believe if a man asks a woman out on a first date - regardless of how it goes - he should pay and not take money from her. it's just tacky. he should take her to a place that's within his budget, preparing himself for either situation (good or bad) and understand that it's all a part of being "out there". if you're worried about money, go for coffee. not a coffee drinker? take a walk around the park and grab an iced tea. you should know that women talk, and if a man does accept cash from her on a first date, he's immediately put on the dating black-list. just some insight from a gal who's "out there"...

[Joy]

To the male commenter above, the key points to remember are that Darren got the idea AFTER the meal that Joanne wasn't interested, and that Joanne in fact was interested in a second date.

When the check comes, a woman could offer to pay if she has already decided that she's not interested in seeing the man further. But typical etiquette for dates is that whoever does the inviting is responsible for paying. Darren chose an expensive restaurant with the full knowledge that dating itself is a crap shoot.

And as for your drink-buying friend, that's a crap shoot also. Ladies should be polite and kind in these situations, but drink-buying is not quid pro quo for 10 minutes of conversation. The drink does not "signify" anything, and accepting one is not a tacit agreement to get to know the buyer better to the buyer's satisfaction.

[Josh Morgan]

God I'm happy that I'm married.

[Freakish Tuscan Villa]

Maybe my Yiddish is a bit off, but if this clown is asking her to be a mensch, perhaps he should look in the mirror and discover the shlameil he really is. On behalf of all the decent guys out there, Daren, please "Ech hob dir in drerd"

[guest]

"The drink does not "signify" anything, "

But yes it does. If not then what is this strange phenomenon of men buying total strangers drinks. Hi, I'm joe would like a drink? There ya go, thanks come again'. Everything in dating is rituals. Not as primative as they once were, but rituals none the less. I hate to repeat myself but c'mon, you know the man is offering the drink is really saying 'You are attractive to me and I'm making an attempt to get to know you better, are you interested as well?'.

That's what it means plain and simple.

[Owen Lystrup]

This sounds like something I saw on People's Court last week.

[slinkybender]

Money invariably ruins my relationships with women -- except, of course, where it makes them possible at all.

[Vayacondia]

Unreal. I am soooo glad that I don't have to date anymore. If I found myself single once again, I think I'd stay that way.

[Susan]

Well, as a Jewish person this certainly doesn't do a lot to dispell stereotypes does it. What a fucking loser. Thank god I'm a dyke. We have losers but they are a little less scary.

[Yoshi]

That guy is really is sick....is it that serious?

[Michele]

The same thing happened to me with a guy I met on JDate, but he asked for $20.00. I told him to wait by the mailbox, bet he is still there!

[me]

guest, why not try talking to the person FIRST and then if they seem interested offer to buy them a drink. Wouldn't that make more sense?
Also, I had an older male co-worker who gave me this pearl of wisdom: If a man offers to buy you a drink he is very well aware of the fact that you could say yes and simply walk away. Only men who like to gamble should ever offer a woman a drink. So Take the Drink and walk away already!

[ginpoopoo]

This guy is a complete NARCISSIST and/or MYSOGYNIST!
He probably expects to get laid if he gives a girl a backrub.
Don't give things and expect things in return, Darren. When you don't get those things, going all psycho is NOT ok. Grow UP!

[David]

whoa...

oh, and to the guys who believe that buying a drink for someone entitles you to a conversation, uhm.... not so much.

When you choose to buy a drink, you're taking a risk just as if you'd decided to walk up and talk to the person (who has every right to walk off then too). Instead of trying to strike up a conversation, YOU chose the drink probably because YOU were more comfortable with using that method as your excuse to talk to her.

Maybe your friend creeped her out after she accepted? Maybe she was drunk? Maybe she had a boyfriend? Who knows, and who cares? It's all irrelevant; the target of your affection is not obligated to stick around for any length of time or even speak to you beyond saying "Thank you."

Seriously, suck it up. If losing the $8 to $12 is going to bother you that much, then just try saying "Hi. Are you here with anyone?"

[Are you kidding me?]

Um...I think what I find slightly more disturbing than Darren's actions are the responses by men who think this whole scenario should be acceptable. No woman should have to "INSIST" on paying half the bill more than once. If you don't jump and say, hey that's a great idea, the first time she offers, you're an idiot, cut your losses and move on. The same rules apply when you offer to buy a woman a drink at a bar. You are entitled to NOTHING. If you don't want to lose, DON'T OFFER!! Now, don't get me wrong, IF I were single and someone offered to buy me a drink I would feel grateful and definitely chat with whoever bought it for me for probably the duration of the drink. It's the polite thing to do. BUT if you say something in the first few minutes that completely offends me, threatens me, creeps me out, turns me off, or makes me uncomfortable I am G-O-N-E gone. Do any of you play Texas Hold 'em? If you bet the first couple of times and then decide you have nothing after seeing the 4th card, you don't get your chips back because you have shit in your hand. Kick yourself in the ass and GET OVER IT!

[js]

As a former jdater, I've been that girl! I've gone on PLENTY of first dates and let the suitor pay for my portion. However, the difference with me and her is I never offer to go dutch.

Now, I'm sure you're thinking "bitch, such a JAP." Cut me some slack, they asked me on the date ie; dinner, dessert, drinks
If it was up to me, our first date would be in Central park. No food, or bill required- just get-to-know you without too much pressure...

Yes, his tactics and "follow-up" are atrocious and completely childish. However, I'm surprised I've never received this sort of treatment---makes me think twice about first dates and my etiquette after .

Bottom line, you have to feel sorry for the guy. He probably has no clue what a psycho he is being and wonders why he can't keep a girl around!!!

[Titsley LeMieux]

Actually "guest" my acceptance of the drink is payment for all the fantasy role play you were doing with me in your head. Get over yourself. Sometimes it's payment for the g-d damn interruption. I'm not interested in you, I'm out with my friends and you're bothering me.

[Joy]

"...a drink isn't really a drink, it says I like you, would you like to talk and get to know each other better. And accepting the drink is accepting this offer. That is what the drink signifies."

Guest, how long would have been acceptable before walking away? A minute, five minutes? If the drink buyer comes across immediately as a creep, do I have to stand there with my drink for ten minutes because I "accepted his offer to get to know him better"? No, I do not.

I agree with comments from David and Are you kidding me? Get to know the girl for awhile before offering to buy her a drink. "Can I buy you a drink" should not be your opening line. Better yet, guest, stay out of the bar scene.