How Not to Act on J-Date

So based on the success of "What not to do if you don't get the job," this week, we're proud to bring you "How not to act on J-Date."

COMPLETE WITH AUDIO!!

This was emailed to me (don't bother to ask by who, I promised secrecy) and it's about three or so weeks old. And before you give me crap for posting it, trust me, it was forwarded about 22 times before it hit me, so it's definitely out there. I'm not printing anything that doesn't already exist.

Our story opens with some background: For the uninitiated, (those who don't live in either New York, Florida, Los Angeles, or Israel,) J-Date is match.com for Jews. I've used it. I've had a few good dates from it, a few horrible dates from it, like most everyone has.

And when you have one of those horrible dates, you chalk it up. "Oh, it was just dinner," you say.

That's life. There'll be other dates. Right?

I mean, that's what we all do, yes?

NOT DARREN SHERMAN. Darren just felt... Well, "wronged."

So let's start here: Darren's profile reads:

About me:
   
I joined JDate four weeks ago. Cute, tall and funny best describes me!
I am a person whom is usually on the go, particularly in the warm
weather. In the summertime you can typically find me on the beaches in the
Hampton's or New Jersey shore. In the wintertime I enjoy taking drives
to beautiful towns such as Lambertsville, Red Bank, Katonah, Port
Jefferson and Greenwich. "People watching" can be an easily enjoyable
activity for me. I own a management consulting firm assisting financial
institutions with regulatory issues. I travel extensively for business and
pleasure.
   
I am looking for:
   
I am on JDate to find someone special. I have no set rules per se on
dating someone younger/older (20-40). I have learned that age really does
not matter; so why limit any possibilities in finding a life long
partner. Wouldn't you agree? Physcial characteristics: Preferably tall and
medium build. Mentally: Fun and easy going. Someone who is comfortable
with themselves. I love a good jokester so please be funny!
   
Below is a little bit more about me from a professional perspective.
(Hey, JDating is serious business :-)
   
Biography of Darren L. Sherman:
   
Mr. Darren L. Sherman is CEO of <company deleted to give the guy at least somewhat of a chance of recovering from his stupidity at some point in his life from a business perspective, anyway,> a
consultation firm providing regulatory compliance and internal audit
assistance to..blah blah. Darren previously served as a Senior
Investigator for the <government agency deleted>..blah blah.
   
References are available upon request :-)

I hope we get the chance to finally meet!

Darren

_____

So Darren asks Joanne out. Joanne accepts. They eat at China Grill. (Nice restaurant. I've been there.) Darren pays, despite Joanne offering to split the check.

At some point after the meal, Darren gets the idea that Joanne didn't like him.

Rather than just chalk it up to a bad date (hey, it happens, right?) Darren... Well, Darren has other plans.

DARREN EMAILS JOANNE ASKING HER TO SEND HIM $50 FOR HER PORTION OF DINNER.

Yes. I paused and re-read that about 30 times, too.

I couldn't be serious, could I? He actually didn't email that, did he? Oh, but he did:

From: Darren Sherman
Date: Jun 19, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: Date
To: xxxxx@xxxxxx.com
: <mailto:xxxxx@xxxxxx.com>
Cc:


Sorry things didn't work out. I guess you changed your
mind.
Here is my address for the $50 bucks:
<DELETED> East <DELETED>  Street, Apt. 504
NY NY 10028
Take care,
Darren

_______

OK. So Darren's a bit odd. Fine. He emailed her, she didn't respond, and he let it go. Right?

Come on. What kind of story would that be?

Darren CALLED HER AND LEFT A VOICE MAIL, THREATENING TO SEND HER A SUMMONS IF SHE DOESN'T PAY HER SHARE OF THE BILL!

(Insert Jerry Springer "OH NO HE DIDN'T" line here.)

But he did.

Listen here:

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So Joanne goes to work, after hearing that email on her mobile phone voice mail the night before, and before she can even say the world "stalker," she gets the following email:

From: Darren Sherman
Date: Jun 20, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Darren
To: xxxxx@xxxxxx.com
: <mailto:xxxxx@xxxxxx.com>
Cc:


Joanne,

I wanted to follow up on my email and call to you last night to ensure you received my messages for the $50.

Please acknowledge by replying to this email that you will be sending me the $50.

I hope you understand from my point of view.

Thanks,
Darren

________

Um... OK. This is just getting weird. It ends here, right.

Heh. Yeah. Right.

Joanne sends the following email back to Darren:

Darren,

I just received your emails and also your message from last night. I  was away and am just getting back this morning. I had every intention of calling you andmeeting to go out but your email has completely turned me off and i find it extremely tacky. I will not be sending you any money since i offered that night to pay and you told me no that you would take care of it.

Please do not call me or send me another email i would rather not hear from you at all. And for future reference in the dating world you may want to rethink the tacky approach about asking someone for money like that perhaps that is why you haven't met anyone or have seen them again.

__________

Go Joanne!! Way to show a backbone! Nice!

This, of course, (as you could have guessed,) just sends Darren to the next level.

HE CUTS AND PASTES HIS AMEX BILL INTO AN EMAIL!!!

From: Darren Sherman
Date: Jun 20, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: American Express Bill
To: xxxxx@xxxxxx.com
: <mailto:xxxxx@xxxxxx.com>

06/04/2006
CHINA GRILL NEW YORK NY
FOOD/BEVERAGE
FOOD-BEV 107.83
TIP 20.00
Reference No: 320061560288086573
More Detail
127.83

Do the right thing Joanne.

Thanks,
Darren

__________

Words fail me.

About four hours later, DarrenStalker (TM) strikes again, sending another voice mail, telling Joanne that she's "hiding behind email," and now he's going to "contact her employer."

There aren't big enough letters on my keyboard to type "WTF?"

Listen here, and try not to snort soda out of your nose.

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After receiving this barrage of communications, Joanne decides to fire  off an email to Darren to end this once and for all:

From: xxxxx@xxxxxx.com
: <mailto:xxxxx@xxxxxx.com>
Date: Jun 20, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject:
To: Darren Sherman

Darren

I am truly sorry it didn't work out. You seemed like a nice guy, but  after your voice mails you have now entered the world of a first class creep.  Dating is not business, I offered to go dutch at the time the bill  came and you declined, as far as I am concerned that is the end of the  story. I didn't know that your paying the bill was contingent on me  going out with you again.

Once again, I think you need to look internally as to why things are  not working out for you in the dating world. You had mentioned that  you had been burned several times, and I am sorry if you feel that it  has happened to you again, but perhaps it is your approach in dealing  with others that leads to this. Dating and relationships and business  are completely different and there is not a quid pro quo for eating  and drinking on a date. If this is how you think it works, perhaps you  should get consult a professional who I could take care of all of your  needs. If I remember correctly it was your choice to go out for  dinner, I would have been just as happy to take a walk in the park to get to know you.

With that said, please feel free to call my employer or issue a  summons if you think that this will help. Your message has said that  you will not drop this, and I am not one to be bullied or threatened.  I have saved all your messages and if you chose to go ahead with your  threats then I will be more than happy to notify the proper  authorities and get a restraining order. I will also let your clients  and employees know about your erratic and bizarre behavior.

Joanne.

_________

I do love her backbone.

Does this phase Stalker-Darren? (Who should totally be a comic strip character and should fight the Green Lantern or something...)

No, it does not phase Stalker-Darren.

Darren calls her OFFICE, again threatening the summons, and offering up this pearl of Darren-Wisdom: "You ate the food, you drank the wine, Pay your bill."

Words fail me here, guys. And seriously - for a publicist? That's rare.

Listen here:

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And of course, much like the Ginsu Knives commercial, just wait. There's MORE!

After another 28 minutes, Darren calls her cell phone AGAIN!! This time, (and I implore you - sit down for this one) he lets Joanne know that he's CALLED CHINA GRILL TO REPORT A DISCREPENCY IN THE BILL!

Yes, you read that right. Darren has told Joanne that he called China Grill to speak to the General Manager to explain that he should not have been charged for the entire meal - i.e., He expects China Grill to call Joanne and get her half of the bill, and credit his AmEx.
People, I have no motive for lying. You can't make this stuff up. Listen to the fourth voice mail here:

Download VM-04-4.wav

Finally, the fifth voice mail. From CHINA GRILL! They called, apparently as confused as we all are, asking Joanne what the heck was going on.

Download VM-05.WAV

PR props to China Grill - When Joanne told them the story, they not only told her to not worry about the bill, but offered her a free drink the next time she stopped in. WELL DONE, China Grill's GM. Someone got their PR training. Bravo.

At this point, kids, that's where our story ends. Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of Darren Sherman - Perhaps he's filing a "stop payment" on his Amex Bill... Or perhaps he's given up J-Date all together.

One thing we do know, though - (and how many times have I said this?) It you put it out there, either on a voice mail, email, fax, or the Internet, it WILL come back to bite you in the ass.

You don't believe me?

Just ask Darren Sherman.

Comments

[raincoaster]

For god's sake, buying a drink for someone is an attention-getting device, not a sophisticated form of renting them. Once you've got their attention, they can make their decision from there. It guarantees nothing other than that they will pay attention to you momentarily.

As for the suggestion that all women offer to go dutch when they never want to see the guy again: some of us are just generous sorts. I always offer to go Dutch if I can afford it, because it's a nice thing to do. What if the guy thought I'd put him in the trash bin and was offering to split the bill because I thought he was a cane toad? Besides, even Miss Manners says that the person who asks, pays, regardless of gender.

[ANP]

Oh sure, he gets to pay with his AmEx and earn the MR points; she has to pay with cash sans rewards?!?! Nice try!

Phew, so glad my luck on JDate has been better.

Great post.

[akaria]

Congrats PR guy! You've posted an embellished urban legend that's been going round the internet since 2004. Maybe you and the pro-lifer guy who wrote about that Onion piece can be pen pals.

[dutchie]

tradition says man pays for woman. this comes i think from the primal instinct that the man should be able to provide food for the woman before she engages with him sexually. her depency on him for bringing her food whilst pregnant is enormous of course. doesn't matter whether she has a high paying job or works for minimum wage. at some point she will physically be unable to provide food for herself and her unborn child. unfortunately, this clashes with the instinct of man, having to impregnate as many women as possible, in order for the race to survive.

feminism has kind off destroyed the rationale behind conventional rules, that is, in the hetero world.
how do gay people do this i wonder? with reason?

i agree with most of what you say, except for guest of course.
i mean geez, you can't even date anymore, take a slight chance, or someone calls your work etc.? the guy is completely irrational and super scary, he has no idea of reality whatsoever. i feel a bit sorry for the woman, i would hate to have to deal with this. what a waste of time.
in the end this story is an extreme situation. i guess it was at her risk as well, for putting herself out there in order to find a man. usually when you force it the last thing you get is the desired effect. but then, you can't win if you don't take a risk.

[empty spaces]

pretty strange story, but as they say "Life immitates cheap TV shows!"

[raj]

While I do not side with supercreep, I've had many female friends + acquaintances who bragged about how they tricked guys into buying them drinks then ignored them. Sorry to whomever said otherwise above, but it's a known ritual that accepting a drink is supposed to mean: Okay, I'll put up with you for a few minutes. If you're nice, I'll stay. If not, I'll walk away.

But taking the drink and walking away makes a woman give other women a bad name. And provokes kooks.

Don't want to talk to the guy, then don't take the drink. Not sure? Take the drink, converse, then say you have to go see a friend - or whatever.

Like the guy after a few minutes? Hey, buy him a drink, if you can.

[Kat]

Okay, this is why I'm single. And maybe a guy shouldn't take a FIRST date to an expensive restaurant, especially when they've never met! This guy gives men a bad name. Maybe he should pay her back for wasting her time on his clearly boring date.

[JAH]

Did Joanne contact J-Date to let them know about this? If not, she should and soon. They should kick this loser Sherman off of J-Date for good.

[Caliban]

I don't think this is an urban legend -- Darren Sherman is real, and the information posted here about him in his resume checks out. Also, the audio clips? I'm pretty sure this guy is for real -- and that he's really never going to date again after this.

[Chode]

Ah... this thing is endlessly hilarious! Peter, it sounds like this guy needs a publicist of his own. His interview with Lloyd Grove definitely didn't do him much good.

[Arnell Boone]

Help support Joanne's legal fund and get one of these great shirts.. You ate the food, You drank the wine - Do the right thing. Be a mensch
www.cafepress.com/darrenator

[Jordan Knight]

Brings back nostalgic memories of when I lived in Florida...too funny!

[puck_finn]

All of this talk about the etiquette of accepting drinks/dinner is beside the point.

The point is that this Darren character felt that it was his privilege (or, it seems, his RIGHT) to threaten and harass this woman.
This man repeatedly invaded her space.

Everything else is moot.

She should file whatever charges she can against him.

[Andrew G.]

Can somebody /please/ make sure this is worked into a Law & Order: SVU plot at some point? Incredible...

[Darren]

I would just like to point out that what you are all doing on this board is libel, and if you're talking about me behind my back in a public manner, it's slander. So, if you don't mind, I'd like you all to do the right thing and submit me a personal apology as well as a correction to any/everyone who you mentioned this occurrence to. I think we can all agree it would be the right thing... You read the story, you wrote the comments, now repent your sins.

[Joe]

I could not imagine suggesting a woman go dutch with me, nevermind asking to be REPAID by her. Absolutely hysterical. Guys, you go on a date, you pay. Wanna go dutch, go out with a friend.

[Anna]

"You know as well as I do that that drink isn't really a drink, it's says I like you would you like to talk and get to know each other better."

I have often declined drinks from men who are at the bar (club, restaurant) with their wives or girlfriends. (And the fact that they are there with someone is no secret) How do we explain this phenomenon? Wait, I take that back, I did accept a drink from a married man once after having a long (political) discussion with him and his wife. Although our opinions differed greatly, I saw the gesture of offering me a drink showed that there were no hard feelings. At the point when the drink was offered, I was already talking to a different group of people and his wife wasn't around. I took the drink but continued talking to this new group. And someone reprimanded me saying, "I think he meant he wanted to talk to you."

Did I commit some faux pas? Or was I right to interpret this gesture as I did?

[Dm Rod Co.]

Sorry to the gal this happened to. this guy is serioulsy disturbed. Please file a restraining order now ! I have dated gal's that we never seemed to click and NEVER would I ever consider this type behavior.

[YiddishMarine]

This is the funniest thing I have ever seen. What a putz! What the fuck were you thinking Darren? You will never get laid again. Even hookers will avoid you. Strip clubs will have you on the "keep out" board. Your own dog won't even hump your leg anymore because you asked him to chip in for the dog food. Good luck to you in that move to Fargo since your personal life is now destroyed just about everywhere else. Way to fuck yourself in the internet age!

[guest]

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but even buying a drink for a lady doesn't mandate _anything_ . It is an invitation to chat for the duration of the drink; but if the lady feels like it, she's free to walk away. Stop treating a woman like a piece of property, and maybe you will meet someone you like.

You cheapskates give the rest of us single men a bad name.

[BirdmanTexas]

What a moron and regarding guest's comment about this behavior being on the same level as a woman accepting a drink and walking away I have only one comment - if you can't afford the drink or the dinner, don't offer to buy ..or go somewhere cheaper -as KS suggested.

I've been dating longer than I had anticipated I would have in this lifetime but alwayst try to be a gentelman. I'm always the first to open a door, stand-up for a lady or buy a drink if it seems appropriate / not creepy and sometimes just because. I do this not because I expect something in return be it a date, conversation or anything else. All that is expected in return is a thank you or a kind gesture from across the bar. Funny thing is, it has been good even though I don't expect it as I've gotten several dates, but usually from a woman sitting next to me or a friend or down the road from another woman who appreciates a man who is just NOT A CREEP like this guy.

Oh well, good look to all of ya'll :-) out there in dating land. It sad but funny to see jokers like this guy out there.

[Jason]

You should cue in the theme to "Twilight Zone" whenever starting this...

[FlyingFred]

"Should I bring all of my shoes too?"

(for the Jerky Boys fans out there)

[jerkius]

wow. just wow.

when i take chicks out, i always pay and i dont ask them for money.

well i have once, that was only because i had a budget of 200$ on the date, and the chick ended up living over 80 miles away.

/and i only asked her for 10$ just to make sure i had enough gas to get home
//drives a 94 integra LS
///built engine
////uns 13.2 on a 50shot of NOS

[Marcy]

What an utterly creepy story, yet oddly hilarious (in a sad way) at the same time. Of course, I say that only because it isn't happening to ME. The comments section is quite entertaining as well. I will be linking this to a forum I moderate - our own comment section ought be a hoot, being as the percentage of male members to female runs around 1,000 to 1.

Addressing a few of the comments I've read, in my 40+ years I have found that if you ask men what they believe, having a woman accept a drink that you've bought for her does lead them to think - however wrongly - that it entitles them to something...a few words, and an opening for conversation. Not since the early eighties, have I known any man who assumes buying a woman a drink, entitles him to more than that. (I'm female, in case anyone was wondering ;D)

I have a couple casual female acquaintances who think it's a hoot to get men to buy them drinks in bars, then they lead those men on to keep getting free drinks. The whole sorry thing always ends with them ditching the guys by sneaking out a side door, and going off to a different bar. Notice I said "acquaintances." I could never be friends with anyone who thought such a shoddy way of behaving, was acceptible or even funny. I would also not be friends with any man who thought that if a date went badly, it was okay to punish his partner by in effect, charging her for his time. Does that mean if it had went well, he could lay out more money and purchase sexual favors? Darren sounds like a real piece of work...or a guy used to paying professionals for "dates."

When I've been offered drinks by strangers, I refuse. Always. Unless I already know you, and you are just picking up this round, you'll get a thanks but no thanks and a smile. I make my own money, and buy my own drinks. On dates, I always pull my money out when the bill comes, regardless of who invited whom. If my date gets insulted, that's his problem. We can discuss it, of course. "You can get the next one" works in a pinch, if he seems too upset.

I've actually found that turning down a drink, and then taking the time to explain why, has led to some highly entertaining conversations and even dates in some cases. Engaging a person in conversation without any money being involved, always works best.

That isn't "women's Lib," it's common sense. If you can pay your way, do so. It's your responsibility as an adult. Men are not obligated to pay for what a woman wants.

My personal bottom line, is that I refuse to feel obligated - even in a truly minor way - to someone I do not know well. Even if the "obligation" is tenuous at best. I'm quite sure many people will disagree with me, but that is exactly what's so great about being human - we get to decide upon our own personal codes of behavior, that others are not obligated to follow along with. What works for me, may not work for you.